[It does take him about 20 minutes because he left Ash at home. The rabbit seems acutely aware of him all the time and he doesn't put it past her to attempt to kick in the doors or windows if she senses that he's heated.
He opts to message Donnie once he's at the door]
I'm here.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[And robot arms will appear out of the wall, pointing a path through the grounds and house to the green house where a sign says 'private conversation, do not enter' is on the slightly ajar door.]
[The green house will be Vibrant. Donnie may not be spring, but he adores plants.]
[And thankfully the kinds of the Audrey II variety are sectioned off in a DO NOT ENTER ON PAIN OF DEATH, reinforced foggy glass corner.]
[But the plants in the green house proper are varied and well cared for with an assortment of fruit. Along with a nice little sitting area where various notebooks and tablets are pushed to one side to make room for a meat lovers pizza and some glasses of flavorless juice (which tastes like water, but...not quite????), and Donnie, whose tapping at a tablet while eating a slice.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[Cole will never be able to comprehend what people reasonably do with...all of this. He's still coming to grips with a bed of his own and then just...robot arms and signs, and too-biggreenhouses. And it's really just better to take it in stride.
So he enters and sits down across from Donnie, opting to not interrupt whatever he's doing on his tablet. But he has that air about him where he's got nothing to do while he waits, because he never really thinks about doing anything just to kill time.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[When you are used to living underground and needing to find ways to have space when you weren't strong enough to risk going outside alone, you make space where you can and deal with having less.]
[So when there's the option to have as much as he wants without having to hide, and to have space to stretch his legs, and not have to skimp on anything because they're all quest fiends?]
[(And maybe illegal activities.)]
[Well, it was nice to just have at it. To have all the things to make life comfortable and enjoyable.]
[After about sixty seconds, there is a beep on the tablet and Cole may catch the big flashing arrow on it pointing right at him.]
[Donnie blinks and looks up.] Oh! You're here. You should have said something.
[This is what he uses the tech for. To compensate for his hyperfocus.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[Cole's taken the opposite path, content with just the things similar to what he lost, or whatever tiny space that he can make for himself. It's a huge adjustment.
The arrow pointing at him is uncomfortable enough to rankled the deeply ingrained tendency to avoid direct notice in unsafe situations. Not that this is unsafe. But it's just uncomfortable enough to hit that. He doesn't react to the feeling whatsoever though.]
...you looked busy, so it would've been rude.
[He offers a shrug and, just not having seen the point to interrupting in this case.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[This is why he has the arrows. He Knows Himself.]
[He turns the tablet over.]
Depending on the context of this conversation, I may prune some plants. Busy hands help when problem solving. I will be listening, I have been told it can be difficult to tell.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Ignoring me probably just would've have made things worse. Hopefully you'll get why in a second.
[He's committed to this, even though it already feels like standing on a cliff.]
I'm here to talk about your approach to things with especially MK, the hardship it helped leave me with, and the anger I'm feeling because of it. I'd rather not, but here we are.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
That was more so you are aware how I operate. Donnie hyperfocuses so he needs to be made aware of your presence. If its genuinely important, he will not respond at all, and then you must decide if your thing is important enough to push.
[He likes being clear.]
[Though that gets him to stare.]
My approach with MK? That was months ago....?
[But now he's tapping at the table. One. Two. Four. Eight. Sixteen. Back to one.]
Why did you wait months?
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
And the amount of effort it's taking me to just sit here and do this is why I'm giving you fair warning that it probably would have made things worse.
[He takes a slow breath.]
I only found out about any of it a couple of months ago, because MK was left thinking that he deserved every level of what was happening and had no right to talk to anyone about anything connected to that whole mess. And once I did find out, I was planning to keep my feelings about that knowledge to myself.
But I promised I would talk to you, so I'm here.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
BOSS, dad proof. [He stands up as metal moves down along the walls, with Autumn power pouring in, and he goes to pick up the pruning shears, moving along the plants to start working or else he was going to have a panic attack.]
[His face is very blank because brain to face is Hard.]
[His voice was has gone from monotone to outright flat.]
[Don't panic. It may not be like literally Every Other Time This Has Happened.]
Dad proof is so Macaque isn't stressed. That's all.
Just say why you're mad.
I'm terrible at subtext. Say what you mean. Don't beat around the bush. That doesn't do anyone any favors.
Yell, scream, I suppose you could hit me if you want, but that may hurt you more than me.
But I don't...
If this becomes a game, I cannot fix anything. I will likely only break it worse.
[It may not be like Literally Every Other Time. Try to believe. Try to believe.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
I'm not going to yell or anything like that. I understand that you were angry at MK for Korone. I don't need to know the details of that to understand that what MK did was extreme. But I have a problem with you going villain mode on him instead of even attempting to reach out or to ask anyone to mediate. And I'm mad, because some of what you told him really messed him up. I've spent nearly the last year trying to help him all by myself, while fighting my own mind breaking, and trying to convince my family to communicate. Because they're all I really have.
And even if Macaque has a point that it wasn't your job to consider the damage that your stunt could do to people around it, I was hurt and left to suffer by myself with no idea why I've been suffering and why the life I've made here was falling apart no matter what I did. That's a fact, and I'm angry about it, because it was too far. I can start fighting through some of it finally, really start helping.
And I didn't want to talk about any of it. Because it's not something to fix, to make up for, or is even that important.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[....well, that lot was confusing in a lot of ways.]
There are several points there I wish address, and I cannot do it all at once, because that is too much for my brain to get the words to my mouth in a coherent way.
First, clarification.
I wasn't just angry at MK for Choco. Choco would have been very, very, two very's, angry if I did all that solely because I was mad for her sake. Choco appreciates our protectiveness, but she hates having things decided for her.
It was part of my anger.
But a big part was MK lied to me.
[He's still pruning the plants, not looking at Cole.]
When people pretend they like me, then inevitably, its other people who get hurt. Not because I get hurt, but because I let down my guard, because when I trust, I struggle to do any less than one hundred percent. If I trust someone, I don't plan for them to do something bad.
Its almost gotten my family killed. More than once.
Because I have the bullshit detector of a wet rag.
MK was pretending to like me. He didn't. Choco got hurt. Macaque got hurt. I didn't have any plans for what would happen if MK went off the rails because why would I, he likes us?
But the most kind interpretation of MK's lying was he did not wish to make his emotional issues someone else's problem.
There could be no mediator.
MK would lie if there was one.
He attacked Choco. He had no reason to. All things being equal, Choco is a delight and has no reason to be attacked, while I can be quite abrasive.
But I hurt his mate. While not intended, I did.
Any conversation with MK meant taking the risk he would lash out at me. At best, I put it as fifty/fifty. The only chance I have against MK is being prepared for him. And I had to be prepared.
I had to be angry.
I had to be abrasive.
In a setting I could control and monitor because if MK ever hurt me in the future, it may not be a fixable problem. At least if he hurt me then, I could put him under, and we could pretend it didn't happen, and I could just set up all the contingencies necessary to make sure it didn't happen so Macaque's heart wasn't broken. Maybe work things out with MK. It depended how the talk went. But I needed to know what I was dealing with.
I can't when I'm being lied to.
So I needed a heated confrontation with him where Macaque couldn't interfere because I had to know if MK could genuinely check himself in the future. Otherwise it would always be a question of when, not if.
Because his word would never be enough.
He lied once.
And I can never take the risk of trusting only his words ever again.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
I'm going to be honest. I don't care about most of the details you just gave. I don't need a specific reason spelled out on your anger or feeling betrayed. Or have it spelled out that Korone was hurt for no good reason. Not because I don't think it matters, because it does, but because it doesn't change what happened. It was still too far.
And none of you feeling like you had to take such extreme measures changes the fact that you didn't explore your other options first, because there were other options. You didn't check to see if anyone who knew him could call MK out if he tried to lie to you or lock him out of being able to lie at all if that wasn't enough, or anyone who could otherwise keep him from lashing out. You did what you did by choice, and your actions helped cause him lasting harm that I've had to suffer through. Alone. Again.
[He's just watching Donnie evenly at the moment. No extreme anger, no raised voice or anything of the sort.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
It changes context. Being angry at someone for someone else's sake is only allowed to the extent the person hurt would allow it. There is a level of removal.
My deciding how much MK should be punished for Choco's sake would not be fair to Choco unless she wanted me to give the punishments.
But he hurt me. So I had my own anger. And I would not deal with being lied to again. The most benefit of a doubt I could afford him pointed to a mediator being counterproductive.
Side note, you should talk to someone else about being locked out of lying. Because that sounds like a slippery slope thing that most people would give me a look about, and I have been told I shouldn't think of those kind of things to solve my problems even if they would be easier. [That is actually a sign of his improvement, to NOT subjugate other's will.]
I made the situation where he could be most honest with me and pushed him. I made it clear I wanted him to be honest. I didn't want his catered words and bitten back retorts.
I wanted him angry.
Because then I would know how much of a threat he would be to my family and me.
And yet, even with all that...and everything I did with Relius.
He's lying. [He's stopped pruning, staring at the flowers in front of him.]
Again.
[There is a slight tremor to the ground.]
[He breathes in.]
[Let's it out.]
Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I will talk to MK.
Alone.
He deserves a chance to be honest when confronted, but that is something to deal with MK about. I'm not going to apologize to you about my fight with MK.
You have no reason to take my side, but its also why an apology to you doesn't mean anything. You should be biased for MK. But having a fight with MK doesn't mean I've wronged you. Just like MK didn't owe me an apology for hurting Choco.
What I am taking out of all that for MK is I need to talk to him again and see if he really hates me that much.
That would be point two. There is still point three.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
It doesn't change the context, it just means I wasn't clear. When I said angry for Korone, I meant angry about what happened because you were hurt too.
And I don't think he is lying. He's taken it all in as it being good now because you were also trying to help him in the end and you came to an understanding, and were entitled to take it in the direction you did. He's being honest that it's something he doesn't want me to be this upset over because you two are in a better place. So no, he doesn't hate you in the slightest. But feel free to check that with him. I'm not here to get between you.
I'm also not looking for anything but for you to understand that this is the second time that your actions have led to me being seriously hurt now. I would say that you took it too far just as quickly even if I had no connection to MK whatsoever and no matter who you forced off the street for this. So don't bring taking sides into this. It's about your actions crippling my life and leaving me with nowhere to turn to deal with it as a...casualty, or...collateral. I'm doing this because Macaque doesn't want me keeping my feelings to myself, because he hopes I'll come away less angry and for no other reason or outcome.
But go on.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
You seem to be very judgemental of a fight where you thought it was just because I was angry at MK for Choco, which seemed to be what you DID mean at first? Because if you knew I was also hurt for being lied to, separate from Choco, it seems odd to put the emphasis on that part when talking about this.
You do see how it sounds like you thought I was just angry about Choco, right?
But it does seem odd to be putting a lot of weight on me hurting Macaque, which is fair and valid because I am at fault, and my hurting MK which is less fair and valid because he did start that when you're also very dismissive about it.
Its just...
[He waves a hand in the air.]
You seem to be attempting to scold me about not being...empathetic?
But you are acting like what I went through did not matter, while saying the same thing I went through is crippling your life.
And yes, I do know it hurts to see your loved ones hurt.
But also its a lot of contradictions I am not parsing out.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Because you're being literal. You basically summed up what happened to Korone as also hurting you because it proved that MK lied to you and that hurt incredibly. Am I misreading that just because I'm not spelling it out completely? MK hurt Korone in a horrific way that proved he was breaking your trust the whole time.
I already said I'm not dismissing the impact on you, it just doesn't change the impact on me or the fact that it was too much and too far. Since Macaque insists I'm worth talking about this for. The impact on you is no less important, it's a different topic. And if we want to be that specific, Macaque is the one who started all of this and we wouldn't be here at all if he'd avoided the biggest thing I warned him against.
I'm scolding you for thinking you had the only proper way to handle things and being unwilling to acknowledge that you did damage on a level that wasn't needed. Not for your lack of empathy. That's a different deal.
[Donnie comparing their situations causes him to stare at the turtle long and hard for a moment before speaking again.]
Donnie, do you rely on anyone in your family for pure survival? Can you function and take care of yourself properly without them? Can you literally feel their suffering in the air and taste and breathe it? So the air in the place that is supposed to be safe for you is thick with fear and misery that you can't do anything about, so you just live in it with no escape because this is your place? Does your mind break to the point you may never wake up if those connections that make up your life are damaged too much? Not choose not to wake up, to be so literally damaged that you physically can't be conscious anymore because reality has shattered too much and your perception can't take it? Are these things that you risk? Real questions, because I came here to be honest. And if those are the risks from the pain MK caused you, then I'm sorry.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
I am literal, but even I think its misleading to go 'you were angry at someone for hurting someone' and assume that also accounts 'because that means they were also lying to you.' Do neurotypicals not think that's a leap? Because it sounds like a leap.
[There is a long pause.]
....I mean.
Short answer? Yes.
There is no way to explain that isn't a traumadump.
Part is mystic powers that mean I feel when they die.
As the...temple showed... [His eyes grown distant.]
[There is a larger rumble on his feet and he shakes his head, squeezing his eyes shut. Breathes in deep. Let's it out. The earth stills]
Choco and Eve have been paramount in my continued functionality. Macaque had taken some of the load, but...
But I cannot function long alone.
I have known that....for a very long time.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
I have no idea what that means besides typical. But I know I'm not typical, so probably not? All I know is I came in with the mind that you were angry, and what happened to Korone was the starting point. Didn't mean it was the end point or even the big point. If she wasn't hurt, we almost definitely wouldn't be here. Right?
Well take your three people and subtract two, because Macaque until recently hasn't really been around because he thought I was telling him I didn't want him at home when I told him I don't want my nightmares to be why he's there instead of with his other loved ones. So I had only MK for touch energy, for healthy food, to manage my nightmares so I don't turn into a monster, for companionship, to and to save me from my coma, and to be ready to do it again while I recovered. And I was forced to live in his pain for that entire time and do nothing for it while I tried to find reality again, while trying to be an adult when I don't know how to do much of anything, and trying to be comfortable being touched by anyone else since I need to survive while trying to help MK through his touch aversion. Among other things. And every day my first ever home felt like wading through misery because I can feel the emotions in the air and they were just...there now.
And if you understand what that's like, then you also know how helpless and exposes I was. And how scared because I couldn't understand what was actually happening to rip away everything that I needed. And you should be able to understand why that makes me angry.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Neurotypical means usual mental processes. I am highly neurodivergent, which means my brain is wired different so I perceive things differently.
....and yes, I am aware, mutant turtle means there is no typical wiring, but our behaviors are close enough to human to use them as a basis, especially as my functions are different from my brothers.
The whole wet rag situation is because I literally cannot see whatever these vibes are that people see when they peg someone as lying. I can follow when stories don't make sense. But if someone keeps their story straight, I have no chance.
As for MK's lies, those were always going to come out. He was too resentful and not dealing with his feelings and I have yet to see that not explode one way or the other, especially as I am grating. I suppose you could argue there is a timeline where he doesn't give up his resentment, Relius happens, and he doesn't reveal his anger while being puppetted and Heart Game, and he's so grateful that we helped all his resentment vanished, but that is a very serious roll of the dice. Especially with how much he doesn't like himself.
So ultimately, we would be here in some form.
...
Well.
That is the nightmare.
[He gets the nightmare. He does. The problem is how does he show he understand that? Because he's had times like that.]
[Like when he was with Relius, unable to reach out to the others, and had to shut down the Ninpo hardcore because if it was open, they would arrive and he couldn't help. How his only functionality came from focusing on the job.]
[Or his childhood, when Splinter was suffering from his own demons and how not even dense Donnie could miss the stress of everyone around him during the bad times, and how the moment he realized his genius, he worked and worked and worked to make their home not just a place to survive in, but a place to LIVE in, where winters weren't scary, and where he could get packages delivered, and where they were comfortable.]
[Or in the temple where he felt on the verge of panic at any second, how he attached to people quickly, because he felt like he was sinking into quicksand otherwise. How much Hunter and Shirou and Ed had helped him find some means for gasping breaths until Leo showed up and dragged him from the sinkhole.]
[(Then he got in a fight with Ed and things never felt like they ever recovered and he was treated coldly by others for a misunderstanding that he fixed, but that's never good enough, he isn't good enough for these matters)-]
[He shakes his head.]
Are you...trying to fix that? Because you should.
The process is hard, but its a dangerous game to not try.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
othellovonryan) wrote2033-10-23 10:05 pm
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Food?
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
BOSS, when was the last time I ate?
Approximately eleven point eight hours ago.
Oooooh, yeah. I'm ordering a pizza then.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[And he'll hang up to finish up his definitely totally legal dealings and order a pizza.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
He opts to message Donnie once he's at the door]
I'm here.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Welcome Cole. Please follow the arrows.
[And robot arms will appear out of the wall, pointing a path through the grounds and house to the green house where a sign says 'private conversation, do not enter' is on the slightly ajar door.]
[The green house will be Vibrant. Donnie may not be spring, but he adores plants.]
[And thankfully the kinds of the Audrey II variety are sectioned off in a DO NOT ENTER ON PAIN OF DEATH, reinforced foggy glass corner.]
[But the plants in the green house proper are varied and well cared for with an assortment of fruit. Along with a nice little sitting area where various notebooks and tablets are pushed to one side to make room for a meat lovers pizza and some glasses of flavorless juice (which tastes like water, but...not quite????), and Donnie, whose tapping at a tablet while eating a slice.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
So he enters and sits down across from Donnie, opting to not interrupt whatever he's doing on his tablet. But he has that air about him where he's got nothing to do while he waits, because he never really thinks about doing anything just to kill time.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[So when there's the option to have as much as he wants without having to hide, and to have space to stretch his legs, and not have to skimp on anything because they're all quest fiends?]
[(And maybe illegal activities.)]
[Well, it was nice to just have at it. To have all the things to make life comfortable and enjoyable.]
[After about sixty seconds, there is a beep on the tablet and Cole may catch the big flashing arrow on it pointing right at him.]
[Donnie blinks and looks up.] Oh! You're here. You should have said something.
[This is what he uses the tech for. To compensate for his hyperfocus.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
The arrow pointing at him is uncomfortable enough to rankled the deeply ingrained tendency to avoid direct notice in unsafe situations. Not that this is unsafe. But it's just uncomfortable enough to hit that. He doesn't react to the feeling whatsoever though.]
...you looked busy, so it would've been rude.
[He offers a shrug and, just not having seen the point to interrupting in this case.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Otherwise I will likely just not notice you.
[This is why he has the arrows. He Knows Himself.]
[He turns the tablet over.]
Depending on the context of this conversation, I may prune some plants. Busy hands help when problem solving. I will be listening, I have been told it can be difficult to tell.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[He's committed to this, even though it already feels like standing on a cliff.]
I'm here to talk about your approach to things with especially MK, the hardship it helped leave me with, and the anger I'm feeling because of it. I'd rather not, but here we are.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[He likes being clear.]
[Though that gets him to stare.]
My approach with MK? That was months ago....?
[But now he's tapping at the table. One. Two. Four. Eight. Sixteen. Back to one.]
Why did you wait months?
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[He takes a slow breath.]
I only found out about any of it a couple of months ago, because MK was left thinking that he deserved every level of what was happening and had no right to talk to anyone about anything connected to that whole mess. And once I did find out, I was planning to keep my feelings about that knowledge to myself.
But I promised I would talk to you, so I'm here.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[Tap tap.]
[Tap tap tap tap.]
BOSS, dad proof. [He stands up as metal moves down along the walls, with Autumn power pouring in, and he goes to pick up the pruning shears, moving along the plants to start working or else he was going to have a panic attack.]
[His face is very blank because brain to face is Hard.]
[His voice was has gone from monotone to outright flat.]
[Don't panic. It may not be like literally Every Other Time This Has Happened.]
Dad proof is so Macaque isn't stressed. That's all.
Just say why you're mad.
I'm terrible at subtext. Say what you mean. Don't beat around the bush. That doesn't do anyone any favors.
Yell, scream, I suppose you could hit me if you want, but that may hurt you more than me.
But I don't...
If this becomes a game, I cannot fix anything. I will likely only break it worse.
[It may not be like Literally Every Other Time. Try to believe. Try to believe.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
And even if Macaque has a point that it wasn't your job to consider the damage that your stunt could do to people around it, I was hurt and left to suffer by myself with no idea why I've been suffering and why the life I've made here was falling apart no matter what I did. That's a fact, and I'm angry about it, because it was too far. I can start fighting through some of it finally, really start helping.
And I didn't want to talk about any of it. Because it's not something to fix, to make up for, or is even that important.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
There are several points there I wish address, and I cannot do it all at once, because that is too much for my brain to get the words to my mouth in a coherent way.
First, clarification.
I wasn't just angry at MK for Choco. Choco would have been very, very, two very's, angry if I did all that solely because I was mad for her sake. Choco appreciates our protectiveness, but she hates having things decided for her.
It was part of my anger.
But a big part was MK lied to me.
[He's still pruning the plants, not looking at Cole.]
When people pretend they like me, then inevitably, its other people who get hurt. Not because I get hurt, but because I let down my guard, because when I trust, I struggle to do any less than one hundred percent. If I trust someone, I don't plan for them to do something bad.
Its almost gotten my family killed. More than once.
Because I have the bullshit detector of a wet rag.
MK was pretending to like me. He didn't. Choco got hurt. Macaque got hurt. I didn't have any plans for what would happen if MK went off the rails because why would I, he likes us?
But the most kind interpretation of MK's lying was he did not wish to make his emotional issues someone else's problem.
There could be no mediator.
MK would lie if there was one.
He attacked Choco. He had no reason to. All things being equal, Choco is a delight and has no reason to be attacked, while I can be quite abrasive.
But I hurt his mate. While not intended, I did.
Any conversation with MK meant taking the risk he would lash out at me. At best, I put it as fifty/fifty. The only chance I have against MK is being prepared for him. And I had to be prepared.
I had to be angry.
I had to be abrasive.
In a setting I could control and monitor because if MK ever hurt me in the future, it may not be a fixable problem. At least if he hurt me then, I could put him under, and we could pretend it didn't happen, and I could just set up all the contingencies necessary to make sure it didn't happen so Macaque's heart wasn't broken. Maybe work things out with MK. It depended how the talk went. But I needed to know what I was dealing with.
I can't when I'm being lied to.
So I needed a heated confrontation with him where Macaque couldn't interfere because I had to know if MK could genuinely check himself in the future. Otherwise it would always be a question of when, not if.
Because his word would never be enough.
He lied once.
And I can never take the risk of trusting only his words ever again.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
And none of you feeling like you had to take such extreme measures changes the fact that you didn't explore your other options first, because there were other options. You didn't check to see if anyone who knew him could call MK out if he tried to lie to you or lock him out of being able to lie at all if that wasn't enough, or anyone who could otherwise keep him from lashing out. You did what you did by choice, and your actions helped cause him lasting harm that I've had to suffer through. Alone. Again.
[He's just watching Donnie evenly at the moment. No extreme anger, no raised voice or anything of the sort.]
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
My deciding how much MK should be punished for Choco's sake would not be fair to Choco unless she wanted me to give the punishments.
But he hurt me. So I had my own anger. And I would not deal with being lied to again. The most benefit of a doubt I could afford him pointed to a mediator being counterproductive.
Side note, you should talk to someone else about being locked out of lying. Because that sounds like a slippery slope thing that most people would give me a look about, and I have been told I shouldn't think of those kind of things to solve my problems even if they would be easier. [That is actually a sign of his improvement, to NOT subjugate other's will.]
I made the situation where he could be most honest with me and pushed him. I made it clear I wanted him to be honest. I didn't want his catered words and bitten back retorts.
I wanted him angry.
Because then I would know how much of a threat he would be to my family and me.
And yet, even with all that...and everything I did with Relius.
He's lying. [He's stopped pruning, staring at the flowers in front of him.]
Again.
[There is a slight tremor to the ground.]
[He breathes in.]
[Let's it out.]
Thank you for bringing it to my attention. I will talk to MK.
Alone.
He deserves a chance to be honest when confronted, but that is something to deal with MK about. I'm not going to apologize to you about my fight with MK.
You have no reason to take my side, but its also why an apology to you doesn't mean anything. You should be biased for MK. But having a fight with MK doesn't mean I've wronged you. Just like MK didn't owe me an apology for hurting Choco.
What I am taking out of all that for MK is I need to talk to him again and see if he really hates me that much.
That would be point two. There is still point three.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
And I don't think he is lying. He's taken it all in as it being good now because you were also trying to help him in the end and you came to an understanding, and were entitled to take it in the direction you did. He's being honest that it's something he doesn't want me to be this upset over because you two are in a better place. So no, he doesn't hate you in the slightest. But feel free to check that with him. I'm not here to get between you.
I'm also not looking for anything but for you to understand that this is the second time that your actions have led to me being seriously hurt now. I would say that you took it too far just as quickly even if I had no connection to MK whatsoever and no matter who you forced off the street for this. So don't bring taking sides into this. It's about your actions crippling my life and leaving me with nowhere to turn to deal with it as a...casualty, or...collateral. I'm doing this because Macaque doesn't want me keeping my feelings to myself, because he hopes I'll come away less angry and for no other reason or outcome.
But go on.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
You do see how it sounds like you thought I was just angry about Choco, right?
But it does seem odd to be putting a lot of weight on me hurting Macaque, which is fair and valid because I am at fault, and my hurting MK which is less fair and valid because he did start that when you're also very dismissive about it.
Its just...
[He waves a hand in the air.]
You seem to be attempting to scold me about not being...empathetic?
But you are acting like what I went through did not matter, while saying the same thing I went through is crippling your life.
And yes, I do know it hurts to see your loved ones hurt.
But also its a lot of contradictions I am not parsing out.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
I already said I'm not dismissing the impact on you, it just doesn't change the impact on me or the fact that it was too much and too far. Since Macaque insists I'm worth talking about this for. The impact on you is no less important, it's a different topic. And if we want to be that specific, Macaque is the one who started all of this and we wouldn't be here at all if he'd avoided the biggest thing I warned him against.
I'm scolding you for thinking you had the only proper way to handle things and being unwilling to acknowledge that you did damage on a level that wasn't needed. Not for your lack of empathy. That's a different deal.
[Donnie comparing their situations causes him to stare at the turtle long and hard for a moment before speaking again.]
Donnie, do you rely on anyone in your family for pure survival? Can you function and take care of yourself properly without them? Can you literally feel their suffering in the air and taste and breathe it? So the air in the place that is supposed to be safe for you is thick with fear and misery that you can't do anything about, so you just live in it with no escape because this is your place? Does your mind break to the point you may never wake up if those connections that make up your life are damaged too much? Not choose not to wake up, to be so literally damaged that you physically can't be conscious anymore because reality has shattered too much and your perception can't take it? Are these things that you risk? Real questions, because I came here to be honest. And if those are the risks from the pain MK caused you, then I'm sorry.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
[There is a long pause.]
....I mean.
Short answer? Yes.
There is no way to explain that isn't a traumadump.
Part is mystic powers that mean I feel when they die.
As the...temple showed... [His eyes grown distant.]
[There is a larger rumble on his feet and he shakes his head, squeezing his eyes shut. Breathes in deep. Let's it out. The earth stills]
Choco and Eve have been paramount in my continued functionality. Macaque had taken some of the load, but...
But I cannot function long alone.
I have known that....for a very long time.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
Well take your three people and subtract two, because Macaque until recently hasn't really been around because he thought I was telling him I didn't want him at home when I told him I don't want my nightmares to be why he's there instead of with his other loved ones. So I had only MK for touch energy, for healthy food, to manage my nightmares so I don't turn into a monster, for companionship, to and to save me from my coma, and to be ready to do it again while I recovered. And I was forced to live in his pain for that entire time and do nothing for it while I tried to find reality again, while trying to be an adult when I don't know how to do much of anything, and trying to be comfortable being touched by anyone else since I need to survive while trying to help MK through his touch aversion. Among other things. And every day my first ever home felt like wading through misery because I can feel the emotions in the air and they were just...there now.
And if you understand what that's like, then you also know how helpless and exposes I was. And how scared because I couldn't understand what was actually happening to rip away everything that I needed. And you should be able to understand why that makes me angry.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
....and yes, I am aware, mutant turtle means there is no typical wiring, but our behaviors are close enough to human to use them as a basis, especially as my functions are different from my brothers.
The whole wet rag situation is because I literally cannot see whatever these vibes are that people see when they peg someone as lying. I can follow when stories don't make sense. But if someone keeps their story straight, I have no chance.
As for MK's lies, those were always going to come out. He was too resentful and not dealing with his feelings and I have yet to see that not explode one way or the other, especially as I am grating. I suppose you could argue there is a timeline where he doesn't give up his resentment, Relius happens, and he doesn't reveal his anger while being puppetted and Heart Game, and he's so grateful that we helped all his resentment vanished, but that is a very serious roll of the dice. Especially with how much he doesn't like himself.
So ultimately, we would be here in some form.
...
Well.
That is the nightmare.
[He gets the nightmare. He does. The problem is how does he show he understand that? Because he's had times like that.]
[Like when he was with Relius, unable to reach out to the others, and had to shut down the Ninpo hardcore because if it was open, they would arrive and he couldn't help. How his only functionality came from focusing on the job.]
[Or his childhood, when Splinter was suffering from his own demons and how not even dense Donnie could miss the stress of everyone around him during the bad times, and how the moment he realized his genius, he worked and worked and worked to make their home not just a place to survive in, but a place to LIVE in, where winters weren't scary, and where he could get packages delivered, and where they were comfortable.]
[Or in the temple where he felt on the verge of panic at any second, how he attached to people quickly, because he felt like he was sinking into quicksand otherwise. How much Hunter and Shirou and Ed had helped him find some means for gasping breaths until Leo showed up and dragged him from the sinkhole.]
[(Then he got in a fight with Ed and things never felt like they ever recovered and he was treated coldly by others for a misunderstanding that he fixed, but that's never good enough, he isn't good enough for these matters)-]
[He shakes his head.]
Are you...trying to fix that? Because you should.
The process is hard, but its a dangerous game to not try.
It....
You need back up in these matters.
Re: UN: FreeDyver - Voice (One week after Macaque's talk)
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