othellovonryan

Huh? Oh —

Sorry.

[ identity nonsense gets confusing, especially when you can't easily use names ]

He was a jerk and deserved a telling off, but "I hate you" is a bit much. Or a lot much. [ ... ] I got off track again.

Hmm, a bit, but he did screw up a lot.

[He kisses her shoulder.] You were worried.

... I really don't wanna hurt you.

Or mess up what we have.

[ And sometimes! Sometimes, it's hard not to worry, no matter how confident she (legitimately) is that they can pull together. ]

Just goes to show, right? People are hard. Feelings are hard.

Feelings are so hard.

But...

You don't make me feel broken.

I'm...usually pretty good at not letting those thoughts win. The last time someone treated me like that, I realized that what they did was unfair. They demanded more than they had any right to, and their 'punishment' was needlessly cruel and vindictive.

But Tryse matters, really matters, so its...harder.

[ who did what??? ]

I'm sorry they did that.

[ she's not going to ask for any actual details, but she does give him the best squish she can give from the little spoon position ]

Tryse-san is willing to work for this, too. It won't all be on you. [ hum ... ]

Where's the best place to start with this-? [ flips another couple of pages ]

[There is a reason why he doesn't try to work with Pari anymore. A misunderstanding with Eddie that he actually managed to fix on his own, but the subsequent treatment was...bad for his self esteem.]

...were there other bruises she was worried about?

Just-

Mikey has said 'blow ups are often a lot of little things that built into a big thing.'

And if she was already not telling me things...

Mikey-san — [ oh it is WEIRD to call any of the brothers "san" EVEN THOUGH SHE HAS NEVER ACTUALLY MET MIKEY IN PERSON …

… and he's younger than her, kun is probably fine, but ?? ] … is right.

You just gotta keep in mind, too, that those little contributory factors don't always come from the same place.

[ she flips through again ]

She and I talked before about it being okay to ask or remind you about projects ...

Tthe way you talk about, uh, that Arthur person, has come up a few times. That seems to be one of the big things that frustrates her. Along with the feeling lectured to and talked over.

... She didn't say this one explicitly, but I got a strong feeling that she was- worried? about the way you said you don't let go of relationships. That might be one to talk through with her when you guys are on more stable footing.

...Mikey-san is weird. [JUST SAYING.]

[THERE IS]

[A LONG PAUSE.] The best I can do about Arthur is not talking about Arthur, but if both Aloy and I can look at Arthur and go 'those are red flags,' I truly cannot believe that conclusion does not have merit. I even attempted to keep my misgivings to a minimum and simply nudge her into healthy relationships habits, but...

She got changed into Arthur after that one game. And found me while I was feral.

Which nuked my minimum ability for tact.

I....lectured and talked over is hard. I can try, but I need a lot of feedback to figure out what signs to look for with people. It's very hard to not just....ramble. Even if I am not attempting to be arrogant, I know I still sound it. It's a bad combination.

[He frowns.] She was actively telling me to accept defeat with Aloy and wouldn't back off.

[ Pff - ]

"Mikey-san" is weird. Really weird.

Trust me, Dee-kun, the moment you raised a red flag about Arthur, I knew that something wasn't on the level.

[ Donnie noticing that somebody's bad news? Yeah. Y E A H. ]

That kind of thing is ... it isn't something that I -

[ ... wait ]

[ wait wait wait wait wait wait wait ]

Iiiii ...

... am going to put a pin in that thought for now, wow, that'd be a whole can of worms ...

There might be some resources in the library we could look at together.

Right, where were we? Right. For the lecture-y feelings, d'you think it might help to practice with me? Run some simulations? [ ROLEPLAY but not the fun kind ] So I could give you some specific, real-time feedback.

One of my suggestions, for both you and Tryse-san, that might help here ... is to dial your conversations with her way, way back. Single sentences. You get a sentence, she gets a sentence. No tangents, no running on. I know it'd be weird, hard, and clumsy, but it would give you both a chance to rebuild how you communicate with each other from the ground up.

[ and finally, a handsqueeze. ]

Like I said, she didn't say anything explicit about it. It just -

It sounded like it spooked her. [ ... ] And even with me, the other day — I had to pause the conversation to clarify what you meant by it, right? It can be one of those things where you've gotta be really mindful of your phrasing.

Edited 2023-08-05 18:30 (UTC)

Mikey is very friendly, there is a ninety-nine point nine percent chance he would take a more familiar title without pause.

....Iiiiii am extremely concerned about this can of worms?

[He gives it some consideration.] I don't know if I can simulate it? It's not as if I plan to 'lecture.' I'm not even sure which are the lectures. And it's not as if I'm a typical motor mouth. I don't always talk a lot, but get carried along in momentum and excitement and it's very hard to...pretend to be talking a lot? If that makes sense?

Condensing down what I'm saying and she expects it, it should be more doable. It heads off the danger of minimum talking.

Its hard to phrase things when someone is telling you to do conflicting things. I thought it would be enough to get her to back off on giving up.

The can of worms is fine, don't worry about it. [ … ] … I know that might be a disconcerting thing to hear given the context of the conversation, but — it really isn't something you have to worry about.

[ the AU game was A TIME and any time she remembers that it happened is also A TIME ]

I'll prob'ly skip straight to Mikey-kun when I meet him. Plenty of people here ask me to skip the honorifics entirely anyways, you know?

[ which is simultaneously weird and not weird at all ]

[ she nods, though ]

Makes sense. About it being hard to simulate. [ another nod ] I can point it out to you if I catch it happening, but ... I don't think it has happened? Between us? So ... [ hum ] Try the single sentence approach first. See if that helps.

[ and then they can re-evaluate ... ]

[ ... ]

[ hhmmmmmmMMM ]

Question ... [ she tilts her head ] Would you say you rely on hyperbole, sometimes, to try to get a point across?

....okay. I'll take your word for it. [Maybe it was a friend then? Worrying, but nowhere near as worrying.]

Cultural differences are strong, but Mikey would also be respectful of cultural differences. So respectful of what is comfortable and familiar to you, but being exceedingly friendly.

....

To be fair.

You like me rambling about my interests. I know tone has caused problems before. I know those two facts has caused problems before. I bore people, I know Leo has called the rambles lectures before. I can come across sarcastic and condescending even when I very much don't mean to.

I also know I'm a domineering enough presence that despite having compulsion to obey status effects on me several times, I can count the number of orders I've had to follow on one hand. My hand.

If other things aren't working, yes. Usually then everyone knows I'm too worked up on the point.

Thanks. [ For accepting it instead of pushing.

She really does not know how comfortable she'd be trying to explain all of that nonsense, especially when her own memories of it are … patchy as fuck, thanks, Episibama and Snekbama Memory Fuckery ]

[ ... She's trying to imagine anyone being bored by Donnie ... ]

[ ??? ]

[ She is so biased, though. She knows she is. ]

I'm starting to think that people are getting wise to the status effect thing, personally. [ She hums. ] Last time I got hit by one, not a single person gave me one. [ And it was KILLING HER because the stupid effect made her CRAVE THEM. Ugh. ] But ... it is true that you have that sort of presence.

[ As fun as it is TO bully him in the right circumstances ... ]

Mmmm ... [ hum

hum hum ]

The hyperbole thing may be worth looking into more, if only 'cuz it's easy for people to take it at face value even if you don't necessarily mean it that way ... But, I don't know if I'm saying that primarily 'cuz of my own knee-jerk reactions to certain things.

This was near the beginning. Within the first two weeks of the teams being here. At least the first time, but it wasn't terribly long after for other instances to crop up. Leo was one of the few to give me an order. Shirou even gave me hack orders for some measure of free will, but even then, I never had to use it.

So it seems to just be a thing where people never think I can be simply told what to do. And perhaps they think I am arguing when I speak instead of just offering perspective or advice.

I have learned Leo has taken some of my comments while under his leadership as lack of faith and critiques versus doing my job of being the smart one to push for things like clearer plans or pointing potential issues or solutions. Things I did with Raph plenty, who I believe understands what I'm doing, but if Leo can make that mistake...

[He sighs and bonks his head on her shoulder.] Usually when I am at hyperbole, it's because they're not taking what else I'm saying at face value. I tell Tryse she's giving me too much pressure, that I'm doing my best, and she tells me to do it all and give up at once, and I'm not going to give up, but she is actively making it harder and I just want her to back off. Especially when it's not her call what Aloy is going to do. I'm not giving up on someone because someone else tells me too.

[ at the headbonk, she reaches around to give him another of those affectionate lil headpatscritches ]

… Mm. It really sucks to have somebody — somebody whose opinion of you, understanding of you, faith in you, really matters — question, and worry. [ So sayeth Choco "Definitely Not Thinking About Kuroba Kaito Right Now" Korone. ] The one thing I can say is … and this is conjecture and projection on my part — it's usually … maybe not fully, but at least partially, as much to do with their own self-doubt and insecurities as anything else.

Which isn't to say that some self-reflection isn't still warranted. It's like we've been saying this whole time, right? Communication is hard and people, and their feelings, are messy and complicated.

[ Gently squeezes her arm against the one he's got wrapped around her. ]

Tryse-san phrased that so clumsily. [ At a time when they were both getting wound up about the whole situation, too … ] I'm hoping … really hoping, that scaling back your conversations will help with that kind of thing. Both in terms of giving each other some space, and getting your real meanings across to each other.

One of my other suggestions to her was -

Uhm. Basically ... the conversational equivalent of flashcards?

They are messy and complicated.

Criticism can be hard to take, I know that, but its also easier if I just know what it is. Either I'm doing something I believe is right, or I'm faking it as hard as I can because I don't know how to be right for sure, but I have to be doing something. And sometimes that works. I know its worked.

Then sometimes I find out months later that it was very wrong, but no one wanted to tell me. And now instead of making the small adjustments, its...

Its a mistake. A failure. [And that is so much harder than criticism.]

....what is the conversational equivalent of flashcards?

There's still a big, important difference between a well-intentioned mistake and deliberate malice. You've gotta try to remember that. [ … ] I'm not saying it won't still hurt, because that feeling … that feeling that you hurt someone you care about —

I know how deep it can dig.

[ Spoilers! She still feels bad about fucking up in his heart! ]

But that's where being kind to yourself comes in. [ Something that Donnie is terrible at, she's coming to learn. He may be a peacock with an ego the size of a whale, but he's a squishy, sensitive bean and his own worst critic when it comes to anything that matters to him. ] And encouraging honesty in others.

[ Encouraging, not demanding. ]

As for the conversational flashcards, it's … mm … [ hum ] I've noticed that it's easier, when we're having emotional talks, to get my ideas or feelings across to you through short examples that you can easily relate to. Like holding up two similar pictures, you know, instead of trying to tell you a whole story?

[His hold tightens on her a bit.] Mistakes are dangerous when it affects other people. [A mutter against her shoulder.]

[Because he's made mistakes. He knows he does, its a must when it comes to invention. He knows other people make mistakes and can forgive them that. But when it comes to his mistakes, mistakes that leave his purview, and start to affect others-]

[Who catches it when he messes up in things no one else is willing or able to do?]

[He nods against her shoulder.] Those are easier to understand. Dr. Feelings does that. If he can show me to pictures of me being on both sides of a situation, its usually the easiest to understand.

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1/2

ACTUALLY MAKE THAT MORE i will let you know when I'm done

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still going

DONE

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